Husky
Ace
Exam Ready
AFRC Pilot
USAF Pilot
ANG Pilot
Forum Replies Created
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Yikes. I feel like PTDY rule 7 (DAFI 36-3003) applies.
Lastly you might investigate if there is any prohibition on attending in leave status. Or if your commander can grant a special pass
Godspeed!
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Standby for belt feed pay period transmittion….
Will your SQ give you a Rescheduled Drill (RD) and authorize and alternate duty location? You might also be able to use a Readiness Management Period (RMP). Last option is to try to use and Equivalent Training allocation (ET) I think you get three a year.
Best option might be to get some AT or ST days and then see if they would let you take permissive TDY (PDTY), check the leave and pass reg.
If the travel isn’t reimbursed and greater that 150 miles (I think) you can at least deduct the cost from your taxes.
Standing by your questions
over.
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For your local unit, start talking to every pilot you interact with and go out of your way to find time in the squadron. They’ll vector you at the hiring POC and start to keep a mental note on you. Also find the first pilot in your chain of command and let that person know you are interested.
Certainly try to attend any open rush you can, but I’ve found that amongst fighter unit those are becoming less common. Many units hire without an open rush and instead integrate the rushing event into their hiring weekend.
Good Luck!
Husky
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Gotta Have Thud Ridge!
I love this book because it really captures the crazy, catch-22 aspects of being a tiny part of a huge war machine. The “I can’t believe we’re doing this” moments are timeless.
https://www.amazon.com/Thud-Ridge-Jack-Broughton/dp/1888237090
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We’ve been working hard to get more data from the field but the bottom line is that flying training is really in a state of flux right now. If you feel like it’s rapidly changing and different base to base – I would say you pretty well understand it.
XPW is a pretty small program – you can search for it on the main page. You need quite a few hours and it’s a heavy only track
IPT is still not quite a thing
The T-1 drawdown and the T-7 standup are still pretty flexible.
So for the next 5 years I think UFT is going to stay “in beta.” While the uncertainly can be frustrating – try not to sweat it, it’s uncertain for everyone and one way or another the USAF will get you where you need to be. Keep apply as normal and let the USAF arrange the deck chairs.
break,
What does it look like in 5 years???
Probably 9 months of IPT and then 3-4 months of T-6s and you get your wings. After that heavies go to the simulators for a bit and then directly to their aircraft. Fighters go to T-7s. Helos got to UH-1s or its follow-on.
Probably not super satisfying – but what questions can I answer?
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Found some interesting gouge on the internet that shed some light (see attached). It’s the USAF request for bids for IPT and it pretty well lays out what they’re looking for. Enjoy at your leisure.
Bottom Line: Sounds like a pretty fun flying summer camp. Looks like they’re trying to take you from 0 hours to multiengine + instrument in about 9 months. Dorms, gyms, civilian instructor. Could really be a blast.
Sounds like you’ll then come back for T-6s to go upside-down and fly form. I’ve got a little longer activity post on this you can search for on the main page.
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The rumors when I’m at my airline job is that they want to push it from 65 to 67 so a pretty small change. There’s precedent for it, in 2007 the age went from 60 to 65.
While the overall effect won’t be huge. It’s generally considered a ‘bad deal’ for the young pilots because it causes a two year plateau when seniority doesn’t move much. But it’s good if you are one of those pilots AND wanted to keep flying.
Husky’s spicy take:
This comes up now and again because pilots are the highest earning folks in a couple of congressional districts so those legislators care and most other legislators don’t care.
Husky very spicy take
Give it up man! Go get a boat and retire. Better yet, save just a fraction of that wide-body captain pay and spend your retirement flying something you own.
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Even if you can’t get that dream job on the first try – realize it’s pretty easy to swap units and also aircraft to some extent.
Let’s say you ended up getting assigned the March 135s (California), it’s a relatively easy thing to transfer to the 135s at Seymour (NC). Transferring amongst tribes is pretty easy as well (KC-135<->KC-46s, or C-5s to C-17s), and big wing to big wing is also pretty doable (C-15<->KC-46). Switching from fighters to heavies is possible, but heavies to fighters is a challenge.
You can also transfer from USAFR->ANG. Certainly after your 10 years pilot ADSC but also maybe before (I was able to transfer from a USAFR unit to an ANG unit while I still had a service commitment with the USAFR).
So that east coast location might be a destination and the journey might take you through some other places. I really enjoyed flying with different units along the way.
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I’ve worked unsponsored AFRC as both a coach and as a hiring manager (before coaching).
Knowledge of the program is super variable amongst the ANG/USAFR units. The ANG hasn’t done a great job of educating units on the opportunity sponsorship offers. But there are a few units that will definitely sponsor candidates.
My recommendation is to have the conversation with prospective units first (before applying to USAFR UFT.) The best way to set up this convo is as an alternate or non-select.
“Hey Johney you were a great candidate but competition was fierce. We would have loved to hire you but right now you’re our alternate.”
“Okay totally understand, we’ll What if I got a USAFR UFT slot and you all sponsored me? Would you be willing to bring me on that way?”
“Absolutely!”
“Okay I’ll send you some background information on the program and I’ll get the paperwork ready. Do you have time next week to reconnect?”
“Wednesday at the golf course.”
“See you there!”
Cheers!
Husky
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Ya I’d second what Slap said. When I was a hiring guy I lost and gained folks in these situation. There are always ready alternates eager to jump at the chance and most units are jealous – they only want to love people who love them the most.
A difficult convo but I’d recommend your friend have it as early as possible.
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Unlikely that you’ve been ghosted – that’s just not really how most units operate. More likely they’re just really busy and lost track of following up (because really busy is definitely how most units operate).
I’d recommend a voice call – start with your POCs and then if you don’t have any luck it’s fine to call the squadron can confirm the times – that’s totally a normal and professional thing to do in the circumstances.
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Malik you’re in luck the GAANG E-8 unit is converting to E-11As and they’re actually accepting applications.
Tron on!
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Welcome Fitz! Glad to have you. Are you looking to move to the -60 front seat? Or is it a bold new fixed wing future?
Cheers!
Husky
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Max, great to have you on the team! Flying that stearman sounds awesome!
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Jam on brother!
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So believe it or not there is something called indispensability where we bring USAF pilots back from retirement. We have two flying the mighty viper right now (they just leave their walker with the crew chief).
I don’t know of anyone to navigate the process in exactly the way you describe but it’s probably possible. The key will be finding a unit willing to do the paperwork to make it happen. Look for units where you have a strong personal connection or are undermanned.
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Apply! Apply now! Like right now go get a PCSM and apply.
Clearly you are a smart guy (I am not so afflicted), so I think you’ll get a great AFOQT score right out of the gate. That + TBAS + flight hours and we’re can start shopping you around
I would advise against waiting because I think you might be overvalueing work experience over youth. The USAF can teach you how to fly, but they can’t make you younger. Also applying young hedges you bets. If youth is more important then you’ll get picked up right away, if experience is more important then you’ll get pick up in three years (and you can tell me you told me so – you’ll be in good company).
Your role as part of AFRL is pletty Air Force-y, you don’t need to also join a Unit.
So get out there and send blast out some apps!
Cheers,
Husky
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You can absolutely have a great family life and fly fighters…let’s break it down
All units have:
1) Local flying training: Wake up, fly around the flag pole, land, sleep at home
2) Local ground training and paperwork. Wake up, do paperwork, wish you were flying, sleep at home
3) Deployment. Take the mission to the enemy/Bring the weapons to the warfighter
4) Non-Deployment Operations missions. More on this…
The difference is the weighting/allocation of those.
– Fighter and Helo rescue units have a lot of local flying training
– C prefix have less local flying training but more non-deployment operational missions where they are on the road feeding the machine with logistics
– Guard/Reserve units have a 1:5 deploy to dwell. Gone for 3 months, home for 15 months
– My observation is that C-17/C-5 deployments are less common, however KC-135s and C-130s are deployed a lot
– Some Guard Units have alert, which is a non-deployment operational mission, where you’ll spend 2-5 days a month at the alert facility. So…kinda gone.
Now as a full timer:
In a unit like the Makos (93rd FS, F-16s, USAFR), which doesn’t have alert is going to be flying home station training for 15 months and then deploy for 3 months.
Now a unit like DC (121 FS, F-16s, ANG) They have alert, so you still have that deployment bill to pay, but also have the alert bill to pay (2-5 days a month).
Contrast that with the NY C-17s (105 AW, ANG), very little home station training, but you’re out flying all over the world. (Probably 1 or 2 five day trips a month). Usually they don’t deploy but they will go from time to time.
Speaking for myself I’m a fighter guy at a unit with an alert commitment. My wife works, we have three kids and I have way too many hobbies. I felt like I had a great work-life balance. Sure there’s times you are busy but I never felt like I was home any less than my neighbor who worked at whatever cubicle job he worked at.
Now…that said, there is a level of…intensity at a fighter squadron. No doubt.
Here’s what I’d recommend, visit as many units as possible so you can find your tribe. Ask them how many days they spend on the road. Ask them what their typical day looks like. And then just get a sense of where you fit. Do you like the intensity of a fighter squadron? Do you yearn to take the fight to the enemy? Or do you like the collegial, teamwork of a heavy squadron? Are you excited to have someone toss you the keys to a $350M aircraft and just trust you to get to Thailand and back? Eventually you’ll find a group that matches your personality and a home for life.
Parting shot – this has all focused on life as a full-timer, as a part-timer you may only spend a few days a month at the squadron. Happy to have that discussion as well.
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Pile-on there’s also an age component in the transition. Flying fighters, especially when you are learning, is super physical. Pilots who are converting tend to be a bit older which just makes it harder.
While you never want to move your head under G. Doing so when you are 22 is okay. At 32 it might put you out for a week. When you’re 42…well you have to use the force at that point, ask me how I know.
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So the SC ANG email canceling a UPT board created a ton of concern. But it now seems like more of the exception than the rule. Just look at DC who managed to get an extra UPT (F-16) slot.
I’m seeing pretty robust hiring and bogidopers doing really well. Portland, AZ, DC, and AL all went to Bogidopers and lots of folks got invites to fighter boards. Even more action on the OTS and big wing side.
A little more competitive in the short term – sure. But definitely something you can handle, we’ll get you there!
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great to hear – getting those test scheduled can be such a hurdle
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Death on call!
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Dude those are great questions and truthfully the USAF is struggling to answer. .
I’m an F-16 FAC(A) (Misty) and so CAS is my bread and butter but F-16 FACs are relatively uncommon and even rarer of the F-35 side.
The SEAD (weasel) mission is definitely transitioning to the F-35.
CSAR (Sandy) has traditionally been a A-10 only mission. We looked at transitioning it to other platforms but there’s no clear successor. So stay tuned to see what happens.
I think the F-35 will dominate the USAF primary missions of Air interdiction, Counter Air (including SEAD) and strategic attack. CAS, FAC(A) and CSAR I think those stay with 4th gen for the time being.
but the enemy gets a vote so stay frosty.
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Also know as Fat Amy.
I’ve heard that it’s called tuxedo penguin because it looks a lot like a penguin sliding on its belly.
Panther, but I don’t know why.
But it’s like your siblings. I can call it Fat Amy, but no buddy else better.
And they slay at red flag.
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Welcome Edward! Great to have you join. Ya the OA-1K looks like a hoot to fly, and you get to shoot rockets! With a degree in fire science are you looking to do the fire suppression mission? You can do it both in the USAF (CO, CA, and WY) or be a guard OA-1K pilot by night and the OV-10 firefighter by day.
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I had a similar experience in UPT. We had a dude with like 2,000+ hours, MEII. And he was good in (ahem) T-37s, but could not handle the T-38 and actually dropped out (before washing out). It was crazy to see how little total hours mattered in the end.
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While I’m not sure this particular change will affect rated positions specifically I think it’s part of a broader shift towards a more age permissive environment.
Generally heavy units are less age sensitive but we’ve had 32 year-old bogidopers get hired for fighter jobs.
Cheers!
Husky
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Hi Jimmy! Welcome. Are you planning to cross the street to fly the DC C-40s? You could even fly the 737 for AA out of DC and be flying one type and living in base for both. Awesome setup.
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Woof. I’m not sure we have that kind of time. Definitely felt like being a part of history.
If you get called up to do disaster relief (DR) – that is super rewarding and one of the things people really enjoy in the guard. If you feel super excited about DR then rescue or air fire fighter is where it’s at.
