SLAP
Ace
Wingman
Master of Strategery
Exam Ready
Forum Replies Created
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@Alana I just sent in an email to try to track down an official answer for you.
The official reg that covers the AFOQT and TBAS is attached. It doesn’t clarify it one way or the other, so hopefully we’ll get an official answer for you soon.
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@Alana Here’s the response I received from our AFRC rep:
“The PCSM still uses the most recent TBAS score. To your point, a general trend is that TBAS scores increase upon retesting but in rare circumstances, someone could potentially score lower on the TBAS retest and lower his/her PCSM score. The AFOQT Pilot Composite superscore is used in the PCSM scoring algorithm.”
I also asked if a waiver is required to take a test a 3rd time, because the newest version of the regulation doesn’t say it does. The response:
“Concerning a waiver for the TBAS 3rd test, the DAFMAN does NOT require a waiver as you indicate. I think that wording must be old wording that wasn’t updated when third attempts were authorized for everyone.”
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So, they’ve sworn in to “Wing A” for a non-flying gig but haven’t completed any training, and while waiting to start training for the job at Wing A, they were offered a pilot slot with “Wing B.” Is that correct?
If so, they would have to be released from Wing A before going to Wing B. The best way to do this would probably be for the leadership at Wing B to talk to the leadership at Wing A directly and make it happen through commander back channels. The other option would be for this person to reach out to the hiring POC at Wing A to explain the situation and request his/her support to transfer. In most cases, the POC from Wing A will be supportive since no training has occurred yet, and they will subsequently offer the job to their “alternate” from the original hiring board.
If anyone has personal experience with this kind of situation, please jump in to verify or correct any of my assumptions.
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I don’t have anyone specifically to connect you with, but generally speaking, this largely depends on how far along the process they already are with the job they’re trying to get out of. Is this for regAF, Guard, or Reserve? Have they been sworn in yet?
If they’ve just been verbally offered the job and are still waiting to swear in, they are a free agent and can accept a job at a different squadron for a different job. Once they officially join a unit (or the regAF), it becomes much more difficult to switch. Still possible, but a pain in the butt.
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It looks like you’ll likely be used again in Florida in the coming days/weeks. Thanks for your service, DJ!
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Although it would be bad etiquette to leave the squadron that hired you early in your career (e.g. within the first few years after pilot training), it is not uncommon for people to transfer to different squadrons/aircraft within the Guard/Reserve.
A couple rules of thumb:
1. Once a fighter pilot in any jet, you are qualified to transfer to any other fighter OR non-fighter aircraft (except helicopters).
2. Any non-fighter pilot can transfer to other non-fighter communities, but it is nearly impossible to transfer from non-fighters to fighters.
3. The period between earning your wings and the 10th year of service makes you uniquely marketable – especially if transferring to a new squadron that flies that same aircraft. Why? Unlike a UPT hire, you pose no risk of washing out since you already have your wings and can contribute much sooner than hiring another person off the street. And Guard/Reserve squadrons can’t start pulling in experienced active duty pilots until their 10-year commitment is up.So, you don’t want to transfer too early because you may burn some bridges with the squadron that hired you, and you don’t want to transfer too late because you’ll have more competition with your active duty peers after their 10-year commitment is up. Between years 4-8 after earning your wings is probably the sweet spot.
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I can’t find the official documentation, but beyond just overall height will be your anthropometric measurements (butt to knee length, butt to top of head, etc). For any ejection aircraft, they need to make sure your legs won’t get ripped off or that your head won’t break through the canopy before the seat does. The standards must be slightly different from aircraft to aircraft because I know of at least one person selected for A-10s who was told that he could only get a waiver to fly the F-35 (not necessarily a bigger cockpit, just a different ejection seat).
As far as an official source to talk to, I would recommend connecting with one of the BogiDope Flight Docs, who should be able to track down the official standards that Wright Patt uses during your initial Flying Class 1 physical.
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As a pilot, there aren’t going to be many major differences:
1. Aircraft types: Same
2. Pilot training: Same
3. Pay/Benefits: Same
4. Part-time and Full-time opportunities: Same, although some differences in the types of orders.
5. Missions: 90% the same. The ANG controls most of the Alert missions around the country (there are a few AFR squadrons that do alert, but it’s rare)
6. Deployments: Airframe dependent, but in the fighter world it seems like most ANG squadrons deploy for 3 months at a time while AFR are more in line with active duty (6 months). That’s not written in stone though, just my observation. Probably different in other flying communities. -
@luke.beer Can you please provide the link to where you see these requirements listed on MilRecruiter? Those requirements seem a bit different than I remember them. But things are always changing, so I could be wrong. Regardless, I want to make sure we’re putting out accurate info, so if you can link to where you saw that, I’d appreciate your help clearing up any confusion floating around about this. Thanks!
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It looks like the AF decided to make a new regulation about UFT requirements in July (DAFI 36-2137). At first glance, it looks like it was cut and pasted from the original, but I haven’t read through it all yet. Let me know if you find anything unusual.
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@siouxplt 25 yr old at Delta? Man, how times have changed!
Going on Military Leave for a few years early in your Delta career to do some tactical flying in the Guard/Reserve while your seniority continues to grow is a brilliant way to maximize the benefits of both careers. If we could outline the perfect path to take for everyone that came to BogiDope, this would be it!
Good luck and let us know how we can help.
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@goonie It sounds like you discovered what many USAFA grads won’t understand until day one of UPT — the Guard/Reserve provides significantly more control over your career (location, aircraft, civilian opportunities, etc). The Academy provides a world-class education, but it won’t be easy finding many advantages to going the USAFA route vs Guard/Reserve if you want to fly fighters.
That’s how BogiDope started. Guard/Reserve flying gigs were the best kept secret in military aviation, so we wanted more people to know it was a better path to arrive at the same destination.
Welcome to BogiDope!
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@Legs Use this as a general hieracrchy for chosing which degree to choose for maximizing your pilot applications:
1. Whichever gets you the highest GPA (generally speaking, it looks better on an application to have a 3.5GPA in business than a 2.5GPA in Mechanical Engineering — that might not be fair, but it’s the truth).
2. What gets you done the quickest? You can’t be an Air Force pilot without a degree, so the longer it takes, the less competitive you become.
3. Something that gives you flight time. Why? Because it directly increases your chances of success at UPT and will directly help you with several other sections of your application.
4. What do you want to do if you’re not selected? Even if you do get selected, the Guard/Reserve is traditionally a part-time gig, so what other career field interests you?Hope that helps! Let us know what you choose.
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@IHC_Nole Thanks for the kind words and welcome to BogiDope! Does the “Nole” in your username represent FSU??
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@Brian-Ellis Welcome to BogiDope and thanks for sharing your wisdom with the community!
For anyone interested in becoming a Warrant Officer in the Army and/or flying for Army Spec Ops, Brian is a very valuable resource!????
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@Fish Welcome to BogiDope! It sounds like you’re already way ahead of the game, but I would recommend that IF you decide to enlist, you do it in the Guard or Reserve WHILE going to college instead of active duty. You can typically get your tuition paid for, and it maximizes your ability to finish college and flight training on a normal(ish) timeline. Active duty will be considerably more demanding of your time which will likely delay your ability to complete the requirements to apply for UPT (if that’s your goal). Just my $.02.
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@Ckai Good luck with your upcoming AFOQT/TBAS retakes! As you probably already know, the Air Force recently changed the scoring system for both tests to a “super score” method, meaning your score can only increase, never decrease. So, find the specific sections that you need to improve and really concentrate on those instead of worrying about the whole thing again. Let us know how it goes!
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@WAZ What type of flying did/does your dad do for NASA?
As impressive as your engineering/NASA backgroud is, realize that your lack of PPL will hurt you with your PCSM score as well as your general competitiveness against other applicants for Guard/Reserve fighter slots. I recommend knocking that out ASAP.
Don’t feel obligated to go through a recruiter to get your AFOQT/TBAS scheduled. Call any local Air Force Base’s (Guard, Reserve, or Active Duty) education/testing/training departments (they have different names based on the base). If you can’t find a direct number, look up the base’s “Command Post” and they can transfer you. The other option would be to call any AFROTC detachments at colleges in your area.
It’s amazing how difficult the Air Force can sometimes make tracking these test taking opportunities down, but until something changes (don’t hold your breath) it’s on you to make as many calls as needed to find someone in your local area who can help. Good luck and welcome to BogiDope!
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@Fog Congrats on your solo, and good luck wrapping up your PPL!
Most squadrons will accept UPT applications within 6-12 months of graduation, so you don’t need to wait to apply until you actually have a degree in hand. The point is, if you’re inside a year until graduation, start sending those apps in ASAP. Good luck and welcome to BogiDope!
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@load It sounds like you’re checking a lot of boxes for most squadrons (flight time, military experience, good scores, etc). What do you think has been your biggest obstacle to getting hired up to this point?
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@FuzzyBear Welcome to BogiDope! I’m sure there are a few people on here interested in flying gliders, so you can be our resident glider expert.
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@Smallzz Impressive amount of flight experience at such a young age! We’ve worked with a few people who were able to build their flight time quickly enough to get hired at a major airline before starting UPT. Then their seniority grows at the airlines as they get to spend several years focusing on the military. When they eventually go part-time after training, they’ll go back to the airlines with way better pay, schedule, flexibility, etc. Might be something worth shooting for if you’re interested in both careers.
Are you in school? You can get hired at an airline these days without a college degree, but the Air Force will still require one. An Army Warrant Officer would be your only option to fly in the military without a degree that I’m aware of.
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@Jag Welcome to BogiDope! I got bit by the aviation bug a little later than some too, so it’s definitely not too late to make that dream into a reality.
Let us know how we can help. Good luck!
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@jared-johnson Impressive background minus one major red flag – you went to UF ???? (I’m an FSU guy)!
What kind of missions do you do as an Army diver?
Welcome to BogiDope!
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@KGQ Congrats on the Navy pilot slot! Not a bad backup option if the Guard/Reserve gig doesn’t pan out quickly enough.
What’s your deadline for being selected before you’re committed to the Navy? Your resume and test scores are great, but you definitely need a least some flight time to display an aptitude/interest in flying. Apply to as many squadrons as you can, regardless of flight time, since you’re on a tight timeline, but see if you can get to at least solo (ideally a PPL) as quickly as possible. Worst case scenario, it’ll help prepare you for Navy flight school.
Also, if there’s any info on the Merchant Marine Academy pipeline you can provide in a different thread someday, that would be great. As you know, it’s an often overlooked option for many.
Welcome to BogiDope!
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@TStephens34 Nothing faster than a winter preflight walkaround in Grand Forks. Great school.
Congrats on the AFRC slot! There’s a trend developing on this welcome board. AFRC is doing a great job of stealing AFROTC cadets away from active duty (Equivalent of the college sports transfer portal in military recruiting!). That’s awesome.
Any specific airframes or locations you’re focuing on?
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@Kyle Apparently the secret is out on the AFROTC to Guard/Reserve path. Congrats!
How’d the weekend go rushing the KC-135 squadron?
Glad to hear the medical consult went well. They do a great job.
Congrats again and welcome to BogiDope!
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@jd3 Welcome to BogiDope and congrats on your ENJJPT slot! This is dating myself, but I was actually in the first T-6 class at ENJJPT back in 2008. I’m sure a lot has changed, but I’m guessing that airplane is still a lot of fun to fly.
What seem to be the common drops recently at assignment night?
I’m sure there are a lot people interested in the active duty path and learning about the latest at ENJJPT as well, so any gouge you can provide the community woud be much appreciated. ????