CHAOS
Ace
Exam Ready
ANG Pilot
Forum Replies Created
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For those that this may affect… It’s important to remember that you can be up to 40 still before starting URT (RPA Training)!
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Also worth remembering… There are age waivers.
Caveat… They are not easy to obtain and are rarely something ANG/Reserve units pursue, but there are cases out there.
Never say never!
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@rowan-prown Thanks for sharing! Passion gets you a long way in this game. Age can definitely be a deterrent in some of these highly competitive UPT boards… However, I recommend reaching out to some units you’re interested in and seeing if they’d allow you to rush the squadron. There’s all kinds of material on rushing units on BogiDope… The bottom line is that getting out to these units for some face-to-face (if they’ll allow it) is crucial to upping your chances. Once you’re there you can share your story and they’ll let you know if they’d consider you for a UPT slot.
I hope this helps. Good luck!
-CHAOS
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@TAF 100% possible. When I was in Nola we actually hired a seperated Hornet bro who had been out of the jet for awhile. It ended up falling through due to personal choice, but the unit was ready to send him to a TX course and get him flying again.
The process would really start with rushing squadrons and finding one willing to entertain your situation.
-CHAOS
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Awesome post DJ!
It really is never too early to get started in this process. Some of my favorite coaching sessions are General Strategy sessions with young guys and gals just getting started on this adventure. Even before you take tests, start flying, enlist, etc. you can be taking proactive steps to up your chances and get headed in the right direction.
-CHAOS
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Thanks for the contribution Chin Diesel! Always great to get some different perspectives added to the community. I appreciate you extending the olive branch for anyone interested in looking into the World’s Greatest Navy.
Cheers!
-CHAOS
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Thanks for the insight @pwaterman . It’s definitely tough to keep up with all of the changes. Here’s an article I found not too long ago on some the new UPTisms.
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/undergraduate-pilot-training-2-5-fully-implemented/
Worth a read!
airandspaceforces.com
Undergraduate Pilot Training 2.5 Is Now Just UPT After Being Fully Implemented
Maj. Gen. Clark Quinn, head of the 19th Air Force, said Undergraduate Pilot Training 2.5 is fully implemented but may be tweaked.
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Glorious rundown from Husky! Quick pile on…
One key thing to highlight is that while you can definitely manage work/life balance for a long career as a Guard/Reserve fighter pilot, the demand expected at first from a new wingman entering the fighter squadron (fresh from the training pipeline) is significant. There is a definite expectation that you will put in the work and long hours as the new guy to learn the jet, get comfortable/proficient with tactics, and upgrade through flight leadership positions. This can be a lot at the beginning of your career… (While not the only reason) This is one of the reasons there’s a bit of a tendency to steer toward younger guys in UPT boards at Fighter Squadrons.
Hope this helps!
-CHAOS
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Another piggyback… A big factor to consider in this scenario is the toll it takes on the pilot making that transition. I saw firsthand one rare instance where this occurred at one of my past squadrons, and I don’t think people realize how hard it is on the aviator transitioning from heavies/bombers to fighters.
It’s obviously hard to get a squadron on board, but that transferring pilot really needs to understand the demands of being a new wingman as opposed to a seasoned heavy pilot.
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If there’s a will, there’s a way! Keep pushing and keep us in the loop on any progress or any roadblocks you hit.
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@Marco_Polo_Actual Thanks for jumping in and sharing your story. First and foremost, a prior career in service is definitely not a disadvantage; in fact, I can confidently say that it will be considered a positive in the application process.
As far as the medical side goes, that could be more of a challenge. I’m far from an expert on the medical side of things but I recommend trying one of the BogiDope resident flight docs to run your medical questions by.
To give you a good idea of what most Guard Fighter units are looking for, here are the benchmarks I often brief:
*AFOQT Pilot/ PCSM in the 90s
*College GPA over 3.0
*Minimum Civilian Flight Experience: Private Pilot License and the 60ish hours that go with it
*Age: 26 or younger
This is not the end-all be-all, but this is what we typically see in applicants who get picked for interviews. If you don’t have all those things, I recommend trying to get there (for the ones you can control) and/or rushing units to build a relationship so that they may look past some of those things.
Hope this helps!
-CHAOS
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And most importantly, stay the course! You can only control what you can control. Keep rushing, applying, studying, grinding! The jobs will still be out there. Be ready when they drop and be the best version of yourself when they do.
-CHAOS
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Awesome thread here guys! @blueingreen you nailed it when it comes to trying to predict these things. There’s no true formula… Keep grinding and reaching out to units regularly. There are definitely units (to include Hawaii) that often keep there hiring boards close to the vest.
The thought process from the unit perspective is that if you want the job bad enough you will put in the effort to find out about the board. Don’t miss opportunities by leaving stones unturned!
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Has anyone who rushed recently received any feedback from the units?
It’s super important to try to solicit feedback after the fact. If it didn’t work out at one unit try to gain some insight and improve for the next one!
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There are a couple of factors that contribute to the UPT board slowdown. For one, there were a handful of boards over the last few months. Another factor (and the elephant in the room) is some delays in the UPT training pipeline, specifically some T-38 maintenance issues that are causing some units to delay hiring.
All said, these things historically happen… They come and go, and units will be hiring again soon. Keep an eye out, and stay the course! Greener pastures and more opportunities will inevitability be here soon.
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Foot stomping what some of the other coaches have said here… Don’t let this deter you from pursuing your dream! I think we have all seen ebbs and flows of pilot production, airframe cuts/delays, and general defense slowdowns… They come and go! Stay the course; greener pastures are ahead.
-CHAOS
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Devin,
I think in today’s game, the competition level is stronger than ever. If you’ve ID’d something that may be dragging your overall application down, I recommend hitting it head-on. The opportunity for a re-take is out there, so I’d say take it! Give yourself some time to prep, but raising that score could help your chances.
While the AFOQT Pilot score is looked at the most, a really low score in another category could definitely affect your competitiveness,
Good luck, and keep grinding!
-CHAOS
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Nice! Thanks for all the feedback and to those of you who provided additional training tools. If anyone else has some good gouge on any training aids that they’ve found helpful, please continue to share them with the community.
Collaborate to graduate!
-CHAOS
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Thanks for the follow-up @Chainsaw! Glad you had a good time. From what I’ve been told, they had close to 600 applicants. They used the invite-only rush as their first way to trim candidates based off of AFOQT (All categories) / PCSM / Age / Resume. For those that made it to the rush, you should feel confident that your application is very competitive for Fighter slots. For those that didn’t, think about reaching out to those that did and compare your applications to see how you can improve.
Cheers!
-CHAOS
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I hope everyone had a righteous time down in Nola this weekend! Feel free to share your experiences down there and any lessons learned. Good luck to those who visited; hopefully some interview notifications in the near future!
-CHAOS
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Husky,
Great post and points! For those worried about the Guard transitioning from aging 4th Gen assets… Realize that most of the time, when a unit goes through an airframe change, they quite often lose a decent amount of aircrew. With a new jet, the flyers are more than likely required to go through a lengthy transition course and spinup training. Some of the folks won’t be particularly interested in that commitment depending on a plethora of factors (Traditional Guardsmen/Airline Pilot?, Family factors?, Age/Remaining Service commitment, etc.)
If you are an active flyer in the unit, they will often work with you on alternative options if you don’t want to transition. However, if you are applying for UPT, you should assume that leadership expects you to transition with the unit if a follow-on aircraft has already been announced.
-CHAOS
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Eric,
Wanted to reinvigorate this thread. We just completed a rushing the squadron webinar this evening, and I think all interested parties in this thread would benefit greatly from giving it a watch.
The bottom line is that I think creative ways to network or build a connection are fair game. You obviously have to weigh that by reading the room and making sure it doesn’t seem like you are annoying them or being overbearing. That said, outside-the-box thinking like this may get you an in at a squadron.
Good luck!
-CHAOS
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All,
To clear up some confusion regarding the last couple of comments… The Air Force doesn’t recognize Army Helo Training as an equivalent to UPT. While I’m sure most of you bring an awesome skillset to the fight, unfortunately, the Air Force (including ANG/ Reserve) does not consider you “rated” by their definition. Hence why you would need to take the AFOQT/TBAS as each is pre-req. to attend UPT.
Maybe not the best news, but I hope this helps.
Cheers!
-CHAOS
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@Pipes thanks for clarifying. Even better!
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Piggybacking off of Cage… I’ve never seen any discounts or reimbursement for rushing. Unfortunately comes out of hide from the rushee.
All the more reason to keep networking/ make contacts throughout the process so you can potentially link up and split costs!
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Hey Leah, welcome to BogiDope! If you haven’t already I’d reach out to a couple of the units you might be interested in and see about starting the rush process. Gaining an in/building a rapport while you’re waiting to separate will be a huge leg up when it comes time to start applying.
Good luck!
-CHAOS
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@TheEqualizer Welcome to the community. I recommned digging around on the website to the max extent. We’ve got all kinds of materials that should help you on your way. Reach out if you have any questions.
Cheers!
-CHAOS
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Thanks for the intoduction @smiley ! Sounds like you have a good plan. Stay the course and keep the community updated on your progress.
Reach out if you run into any issues/ have any questions.
-CHAOS
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Jason,
Piling on here, if you have any questions regarding legal history and its effect on the medical side, I recommend jumping on a chat with any of our resident Flight Doc coaches. They should provide good insight into what to expect.
Good luck, and keep grinding!
-CHAOS
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Happy to help! Let me know how it works out for you.
I’m always interested to see how different tools help and at what levels.
-CHAOS