Colin
ANG Pilot Selectee
Cool Under Pressure
Collaborator
Founding Member
Forum Replies Created
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Impossible to say what your odds are specifically with the information provided. Age is a poor determinant alone but typically, the closer to early to mid 20s, the better. I’d say unless you’re famous, have effusive charisma, or have close ties with a fighter unit, your odds of a fighter are close to zero. However, heavies are very much in play! Obviously put in your app with fighters if your heart is set on them, or even try for Active Duty and crush UPT and fly fighters “the hard way”.
All this to say, it’s not “too late” realistically or technically. I am 32 and was recently picked up by a unit with a private pilot background. I’m nothing special, but studied like a psycho for the AFOQT, and tried to make a genuine connection with everyone I met. Rushing units is somewhat a skill and artform in itself.
Before any further consideration or rumination on your part, knock out your AFOQT and TBAS if you haven’t already. Without your test scores, units won’t spend a lot of time on you or your application because there are too many unknowns. Most everyone else will have this accomplished. The total process can take months. No harm in making connections with folks in units you’re interested in, but, you just realistically can’t apply until all requirements are met. Another good thing to knock out will be your MEPS physical. AFR or AD recruiters are a good resource for this. Wouldn’t overly stress this but, the Active Duty and Unsponsored Boards require this as part of the process.
BD is a great resource for putting together your general application. Since time is not entirely on your side, you need to consider where on the spectrum of “fly for the military at any cost” and “I’d to fly for my hometown unit, but if that doesn’t work out I’ll stay local, get my commercial, and instruct” you lie. I realized all too late I fell into the former and got very lucky by getting picked up by a good unit. They weren’t local to me and by sheer chance their posting came up and I decided to visit and made a personal connection with the POC. Was falling everywhere else, including my “local” unit.
Tl;dr, if you really want to fly for the AF, apply everywhere, rush as much your wallet can tolerate, and put yourself in for the AFR unsponsored board and the Active Duty boards. This will bring the math in your favor. If you overly focus on one unit, you may be disappointed. Be sure to read the room! If there’s 100 people at a rush event and you’ve had several empty elevator pitch conversations, they likely aren’t the one! Keep an open mind and absolutely kill the interview when you reach that point. It’s hyper competitive right now which makes it tough to stand out. Probably a lot of info I’ve thrown at you, but I’m bored on my lunch break. And feel free to hit me up with any questions. Also, just my two cents, so I’m sure some of the much more experienced folks on here will have different opinions. Good luck!
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Not to hijack your post, but I was told by some guard heavy members that they are thinking of doing away with T-6s for part time heavy units and going straight to T-1/sims since your airframe is immutable. I think many would be sad if that happened, but it does remove some of the “airsickness” risk, is what they mentioned. Wondering if anyone else has heard or can substantiate this.
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Is it true that the National Guard is willing to process vision waivers?
I was in the process for applying to the Army Reserve but, upon learning my vision (2.00 ish) would be out of regulation with the army’s 1.50 myopia requirement, I was told it was not waiverable and would need LASIK/PRK.
Flash forward 6 months, I’ve been talking with a National Guard recruiter (North Carolina) who mentioned they are in need of pilots and that the vision requirement was waiverable for them. Any insight into the veracity of this? Would be great if this opens up the door to Army Aviation.
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You have your 4 year degree (either of them insane individually, and you’ve got two!). Why not start applying for pilot positions right now? I don’t understand the angle of becoming an officer generally if your main goal appears to be a pilot slot. Is your first priority to become an officer?
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This reply was modified 4 months ago by Colin.
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This reply was modified 4 months ago by
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For heavies, I’ve had multiple units mention the volunteer experience on my resume.
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“Realize they have placed themselves in the bar to meet the candidates”
I’d say its 50/50 with the ones who’ve placed themselves in the bar to meet beers.
On a serious note, I do need to get better about approaching folks in the bars! It’s tough to look like a civilian idiot doing this. Met a few other folks who are current officers rushing and they sympathize with the situation but it’s just a bit of awkwardness we need to punch through to get a dream job!
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Hey,
We should connect and stay in touch going forward, as I’m very similar to you in terms of numbers and am starting to pivot away from Guard/Reserves due to the protracted rushing commitments and limited amount of time left.
I’d say we should be hopefully optimistic but definitely have a back up as my understanding is that the competition for OTS spots is intense. I’d have to dredge up where I found this again, but, our GPAs are on the lower end of selectees while our test scores are on the high end. Furthermore, it seems very rare that folks in their 30s get picked up, but, I did not have data for the ages of the entire applicant pool. Are you exercising all your other options as well (guard/reserve/unsponsored)?
I assume you already are, but, get in touch with an AD officer accessions recruiter. They will need to label you as “competitive” for them to move forward with your package. They may label you non-competitive as they did me with your GPA, but I argued it (based on AFOQT/PCSM and flight hours) and they decided to proceed with me. Be patient but persistent as it seems like these recruiters are overloaded with work (rated and non-rated boards and hundreds upon hundreds of applicants!). You may be way ahead of me here but just wanted to get the info out as there seems to be less gouge on going active duty. I’m aiming to have my packet squared away by 25OTS01 due on 22 Sep.
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This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by Colin.
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This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by
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Any advice for a civilian trying to get a foot in the door? I’m likely most interested in WO, Guard or Reserve but also entertaining AD. I have yet to take the ASVAB and SIFT but have excellent and decent AFOQT and ASTB scores respectively, so hoping the biggest hurdle will be just getting them arranged. I’m trying to understand if the Guard/Reserve/Active dynamic is similar to the AF process as well, since that is the one I’m most familiar with. Thanks!
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My crazy hobbies in the past have been motorcycle road racing (think crotch rockets) and enduro mountain biking. Lately I’ve been trying to reduce the statistics going against me, so, outside of flying, mostly the craziest thing I do is backpacking. Depending on the course, I suppose a round of golf could be considered “crazy”.
To your point, I think wanting to take to the skies in a tin can attracts a certain type of person who at least likes to manage risks. Plenty of nuts behind the wheel/yoke out there, one has to imagine.
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I also have reasonably high AFOQT/TBAS scores. Im also rather old (Bush admin baby, the first one) and a long time removed from classrooms, school subjects, and bubble sheets. I devised a methodical and rigorous study regimen where I had to relearn (or even learn for the first time) much of the material. I have a system down including a nice excel visualizer/tracker. Let me know if you’re also an older guy/gal who could use some help to put up some 99s! It’ll make me feel useful in between rushing/interviewing. (Scores: 99/99/99/94/94/87)
In exchange, you can help me try to figure out how to improve a near-decade-stale, mediocre GPA ????(JK)
Jeremy, just figured I’d help you out if you’re getting pinged a lot from this, ha.
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Thank you, sir! I’ll chalk this up to my lack of understanding of how these documents iterate. The language appears unchanged.
3.1.1.1. RegAF and AFR applicants must not be beyond their 33rd birthday nor have more
than 8 years of TFCS by the date as specified in the Undergraduate Flying Training
Selection Board announcement message (generally two months after board convenes).
(T-1)3.1.1.2. ANG applicants must not be beyond their 33rd birthday nor have more than 8
years of TFCS by the date as specified in the individual unit’s Undergraduate Flying
Training Selection Board announcement message. (T-2)As per 3.1.1.2, if I get hired by certain units, I may have to work with them to update their documentation as many are allowing me to apply but have not yet updated their announcement messages with a date aside from “by UPT” which, in the current climate, is no less than 18 months off in the future.
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I was previously trying to resolve whether my age (32) makes the guard a possibility anymore. Searched 36-2100 document on the Department of Air Force E-publishing to find more answers. This entire chapter (3) is “DELETED”. Published Apr 2021. Is your reference more recent?
Furthermore, as far as the guard goes, many units still have the more antiquated “to UPT by age 33” message. Hopefully these statements are not binding as they have been picking up people that are in no way going to make it by UPT by the cutoff date, but are hired before age 33.
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This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Colin.
e-publishing.af.mil
Department of the Air Force E-Publishing > Publications + Forms
Department of the Air Force E-Publishing > Publications + Forms
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This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by
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Thanks for the reply! To clarify, my corrected vision is 20/20. The surgery is not risk free and my eyes are otherwise healthy. My eyes pass the AF uncorrected standards, so, aside from being unnecessary for the AF, it would set me back 6 months and another medical check which is dicey since I am already 32 and have active AF opportunities in the pipe. My end goal is to fly an airframe for the military, but I would also like to eventually fly on the civilian side and already have a Class I. I was delighted to hear it is potentially waiverable for the Guard. I would ultimately get surgery if I was guaranteed a contract, however, the sequence is reversed and the risk of surgery for me is too great for only a potential opportunity.
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Thanks for the background, that totally gives the insight as to why you’re kind of “locked in” for the two years and your perspective totally makes sense. I see nothing wrong with, while working, polishing yourself up to be the best applicant you can be. The test pilot aspiration is really cool! Something someone like me who was a bit of a bum during my schooling years can definitely respect and look up to.
As far as “blacklisting” goes, I’m unaware of anything explicit and I don’t think there is any precedent at this level for such a practice; however, my instinct here is that honesty is key. Not to put the cart ahead of the horse, but, without knowing any more details, if you did nail a slot while in your AFRL contract, it may be worth consulting with a professional at that point to not get into any contract trouble. I bet there may be other folks on here that have dealt with deconflicting current jobs with UPT slots before and they could also help you with getting a game plan for when you’re ready to start applying to stay out of hot water. My guess is that by the time it’s all said and done, the pipeline is so slow that you’ll be near enough to the end of those two years
????
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This all being said, nothing wrong with your plan of waiting a few years to apply. It is the simple fact that there is the risk associated in delaying which is in tension with the fact that, when applying to fighters, the younger you start, the better. Due to the nature of hiring, you could wait a few years and then there could be a hiring freeze say for a few more years, and before you know it, you’re close to 30, putting yourself nearly out of contention. Just food for thought. Trying to prevent people from making the mistake I made!
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Disclaimer: I am a civilian but have been applying for long enough that I have a good barometer read on the hiring situation right now.
I am assuming you understand the commitment and the potential windfall of obtaining a reserve/pilot position; this is the aspect we tend to plug and it’s the mil pilot/airline pilot lifestyle. It sounds like you would like to fly for the military but potential keep your civilian side job of being an engineer, if I understand that correctly. In that case, I’m not sure joining the military as a non-flyer hoping to fly makes the most sense. I’d almost encourage you to join as a non-rated officer in an engineering contract if that were the case. You could reach out to an RLO recruiter and do some digging on the non-rated side if that sounds like the path to you.
Alternately, if becoming a pilot and exercising the “ultimate pilot career” path is what you are after (i.e. part time mil pilot and then multi-million dollar airliner career), then I would start applying to pilot positions right NOW and toss those couple years of your engineering job out the windows as they will be rounding error compared to your life long pilot career.
I think either are very good options, but I’m just trying to understand which side you’d prefer. I think, either way, you would need to commit more toward the flying or the engineering side (and that’s an “exclusive” or). The way to have your cake and eat it too would be to apply and get a pilot slot now and then use USERRA (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/userra) to keep your engineering job. There are many people that fly for the military part time and are lawyers/doctors/etc. on the side. If this is what you’d like, I wouldn’t necessarily wait. Would you give up your flying career for a couple extra years of doing engineering? To continue the cake analogy, the way to get a stinky bowl of broccoli would be to join the military, potentially not get to fly, and delay your engineering career, which would be the option of joining a unit as a non-flyer.
Vets of Bogidope, please correct me if I’m way off base here. I’m definitely not trying to throw shade on joining as a non-flyer and/or enlisting, but it just doesn’t make the most sense here.
dol.gov
USERRA - Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act
USERRA - Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act
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That’s exactly the reason I took it to the track. The physics of a car-on-bike collision aren’t in the rider’s favor. And, to your point, it’s always a Nissan. As for Altima’s of the sky, we do have Cubs and aerobatic planes that don’t broadcast; no better way to keep your local class E airport fun ????
I raced the SV650. Middleweight class; enough power to keep things fun, but not so much that it chews tires or vaporizes the rider in a 200 mph collision. I really want to track a liter bike though as a retirement sendoff.
I’ve kind of been wanting to get back into street riding with a smooth inline cruiser, the Vulcan sounds like a great option. All my fillings have been rattled out by my twins and thumpers (with nowhere on the DD 2807 to mention that) so looking to move on.
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The cheapest rudder pedals and stick will do. There’s a cheap logitech stick I use and thrustmaster pedals on amazon. Budget 100-200.
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I’ve found Anki as a game changer for FAA ratings/checkrides. I would be curious if someone made a deck for the AFOQT but I could not find any based on that search term.
The only downside is decks are a bit of a pain to make manually.
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Sorry for the late reply; if you’ve taken the test you’ve likely made a tracker already. If not, feel free to hijack mine! In the notes row is a reference to some of the resources I used. PDF refers to the online resource. I basically used the “Cadillac option” from the Bogidope article.
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Sorry for the late reply; if you’ve taken the test you’ve likely made a tracker already. If not, feel free to use mine! In the notes row is a reference to some of the resources I used. PDF refers to the online resource. I basically used the “Cadillac option” from the Bogidope article.